Orostachys systematics

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Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:22 pm

This is complex problem and i wasn't able to find complete information about this.
First I will try to find complete lists of all Orostachys names, and than i will try to find
more about synonyms and about the names that aren't used anymore.

O. 'Mongolei'
O. aggregata (Orostachys)
O. aggregatus
O. aliciae
O. aliciae var. komarovii
O. boehmeri
O. cartilaginea
O. chanetii
O. chlorantha
O. chongsunensis
O. eburnifolia
O. erubescens
O. filifera
O. filirera
O. fimbriata (Dunces Caps)
O. fimbriata var. grandiflora
O. fimbriata var. shandongensis
O. fimbriatus
O. furusei (Orostachys)
O. genkaiensis
O. gorovoii
O. iwarenge (Chinese Dunce Cap)
O. iwarenge 'Fuji'
O. iwarenge f. magna
O. iwarenge var. boehmeri
O. japonica
O. japonica f. polycephala
O. japonicus
O. jiuhuaensis
O. kanboensis
O. komarovii
O. latielliptica
O. libanotica
O. malaccopylla
O. malacophylla
O. malacophylla f. rosea
O. malacophylla lioutchenngoi
O. malacophyllus
O. margaritifolia
O. maximowiczii
O. minuta
O. minuta f. alba
O. orubescens
O. paradoxa
O. polycephala
O. ramosa
O. ramosissima
O. rosea
O. saxatilis
O. schoenlandii
O. serrata
O. sikokiana
O. spinosa (Dunces Caps)
O. spinosa green flowered
O. spinosus
O. stenostachya
O. stenostachya var. integrifolia
O. stenostachya var. lepidotricha
O. thyrsiflora
O. thyrsiflora var. rosea
O. thyrsiflorus
O. umbilicus
O. vyschinii

source: http://zipcodezoo.com/Key/Plantae/Orostachys_Genus.asp


Last edited by Narcoleptic on Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:27 pm

Here is another list, but this one is with names of botanists who described them:

Orostachys aggregata (Makino) Hara
Orostachys aggregatus
Orostachys aliciae (R.-Hamet) H.Ohba ( =Kungia aliciae var. aliciae )
Orostachys aliciae (R.-Hamet) H.Ohba var. komarovii (Raym.-Hamet) H.Ohba (=Kungia aliciae var. komarovii (Raymond-Hamet) K. T. Fu)
Orostachys boehmeri (Makino) Hara
Orostachys cartilaginea Boriss.
Orostachys chanetii A.Berger
Orostachys chlorantha Fisch. (=Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger)
Orostachys chongsunensis Y.N.Lee
Orostachys erubescens (Maxim.) Ohwi (=Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger ???)
Orostachys filifera (Nakai) Nakai (=Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger)
Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger
Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger var. grandiflora F.Z.Li & X.D.Chen (=Orostachys fimbriata (Turczaninow) A. Berger)
Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger var. shandongensis F.Z.Li & X.D.Chen (=Orostachys fimbriata (Turczaninow) A. Berger )
Orostachys furusei Ohwi (=Orostachys boehmeri (Makino) Hara)
Orostachys genkaiensis Ohwi
Orostachys gorovoii Dudkin & S.B.Gontch.
Orostachys iwarenge
Orostachys iwarenge (Makino) Hara var. boehmeri (Makino) H.Ohb (=Orostachys boehmeri (Makino) Hara)
Orostachys japonica (Maxim.) A.Berger
Orostachys japonica (Maxim.) A.Berger f. polycephala (Makino) H.Ohba (=Orostachys japonica (Maxim.) A.Berger)
Orostachys jiuhuaensis X.H.Guo & X.L.Liu (=Orostachys fimbriata (Turczaninow) A. Berger)
Orostachys kanboensis Ohwi (=Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger)
Orostachys komarovii (Raym.-Hamet) V.V.Byalt
Orostachys latielliptica Y.N.Lee (=Orostachys japonica (Maxim.) A.Berger)
Orostachys libanotica (L.) Fisch.
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch.
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. var. aggregata (Makino) H.Ohba
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. var. boehmeri (Makino) H.Hara (=Orostachys boehmeri (Makino) Hara)
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. var. iwarenge (Makino) H.Ohba
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. subsp. lioutchenngoi H.Ohba
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. f. rosea (Sugaya) H.Ohba
Orostachys margaritifolia Y.N.Lee
Orostachys maximowiczii V.V.Byalt
Orostachys minuta (Kom.) A.Berger (=Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger ???)
Orostachys minuta (Kom.) A.Berger f. alba Y.N.Lee (=Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger ???)
Orostachys paradoxa (A.P.Khokhr. & Vorosch.) Czerep.
Orostachys polycephala (Makino) Hara (=Orostachys japonica (Maxim.) A.Berger)
Orostachys ramosa Y.N.Lee
Orostachys ramosissima (Maxim.) V.V.Byalt (=Orostachys fimbriata (Turczaninow) A. Berger )
Orostachys rosea (Less.) A.Berger
Orostachys saxatilis (Nakai) Nakai
Orostachys schoenlandii (R.-Hamet) H.Ohba (=Kungia schoenlandii (Raymond-Hamet) K. T. Fu )
Orostachys serrata Sweet
Orostachys sikokiana (Makino) Ohwi (=Meterostachys sikokiana (Makino) Nakai )
Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger
Orostachys spinosa Sweet
Orostachys stenostachya (Frod.) H.Ohba (=Kungia schoenlandii var. stenostachya (Fröderström) K. T. Fu )
Orostachys stenostachya var. integrifolia (S.H.Fu) V.V.Byalt (=Kungia schoenlandii var. stenostachya (Fröderström) K. T. Fu)
Orostachys stenostachya var. lepidotricha (K.T.Fu) V.V.Byalt (=Kungia schoenlandii var. stenostachya (Fröderström) K. T. Fu)
Orostachys thyrsiflora Fisch.
Orostachys thyrsiflora Fisch. var. rosea (Less.) V.V.Byalt
Orostachys umbilicus Hort.Monac. ex Schrank & Mart.
Orostachys vyschinii T.A.Bezdeleva (=Orostachys boehmeri (Makino) Hara)

source: http://vasasi.extra.hu/kovirozsak.htm



Last edited by Narcoleptic on Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:47 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:05 pm

It seems that this genus doesn't make monophyletic group. That means that all plants in genus Orostachys don't have the same ancestor (well they do, but he is much further than he should be for the members of the same genera).

Here is a great article about that: http://gardens.narod.ru/goncharova1.pdf

On page 4 you have a tree where everything is visually explained. DNA analysis was on 12 species:
Meterostachys sikokiana (Makino) Nakai
Orostachys aggregata (Makino) Hara
O. fimbriata (Turcz.) Berger
O. furusei Ohwi
O. gorovoii Dudkin et S. Gontch.
O. iwarenge
O. maximowiczii Byalt
O. japonica (Maxim.) Berger
O. malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch.
O. malacophylla
O. paradoxum (Khokhr. et Vorosch.) Czerep.
O. spinosa (L.) C.A. Mey



Species
O. fimbriata (Turcz.) Berger
O. japonica (Maxim.) Berger
O. spinosa (L.) C.A. Mey
make subsection Appendiculata

and
O. aggregata (Makino) Hara
O. furusei Ohwi
O. gorovoii Dudkin et S. Gontch.
O. iwarenge
O. maximowiczii Byalt
O. malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch.
O. malacophylla
O. paradoxum (Khokhr. et Vorosch.) Czerep.
make subsection Orostachys

Species Meterostachys sikokiana (Makino) Nakai is closely related to subsection Appendiculata.

It would be great if genus Kungia was also included.


Last edited by Narcoleptic on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:19 pm

Genus Kungia is considered to be related to genus Orostachys.
It is native to China and it has 2 species:

Kungia aliciae (Raymond-Hamet) K. T. Fu
Kungia aliciae var. aliciae
Kungia aliciae var. komarovii (Raymond-Hamet) K. T. Fu
Kungia schoenlandii (Raymond-Hamet) K. T. Fu
Kungia schoenlandii var. schoenlandii
Kungia schoenlandii var. stenostachya (Fröderström) K. T. Fu

source: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200149
pictures: http://www.asianflora.com/Crassulaceae/Kungia-schoenlandii.htm

It seems i can remove some of the Orostachys from previous list.
Orostachys aliciae (R.-Hamet) H.Ohba
Orostachys aliciae (R.-Hamet) H.Ohba var. komarovii (Raym.-Hamet) H.Ohba
Orostachys komarovii (Raym.-Hamet) V.V.Byalt
Orostachys schoenlandii (R.-Hamet) H.Ohba
Orostachys stenostachya (Frod.) H.Ohba
Orostachys stenostachya var. integrifolia (S.H.Fu) V.V.Byalt
Orostachys stenostachya var. lepidotricha (K.T.Fu) V.V.Byalt



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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by valleylynn on Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:16 pm

Narcoleptic, thank you so much for all your hard work in searching for all this information. It is wonderful. I had no idea there are so many different Orostachys. Is it okay if I put a link on my web site to this page?

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:31 pm

Well, it was more 'copy' and 'paste' than hard work Smile
Those are lists of all names that have ever been used
to describe some Orostachys species. Many of those described species are today considered as subspecies or forms of other species. Most modern sources inform that there are 10-20 species in this genus.

Put a link to this page wherever you can. Maybe we'll include more people in this


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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by valleylynn on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:46 pm

Thank you Narcoleptic. I will copy this link and past in my Orostachy forum.

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:49 pm

Orostachys jiuhuaensis X.H.Guo & X.L.Liu
Orostachys ramosissima (Maxim.) V.V.Byalt


are considered today as
Orostachys fimbriata (Turczaninow) A. Berger

also subspecies
Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger var. shandongensis F.Z.Li & X.D.Chen
Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger var. grandiflora F.Z.Li & X.D.Chen

are no longer valid
according to the source: http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss/volume08/CRASSULACEAE.pdf (page 7)

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:58 pm

Source http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss/volume08/CRASSULACEAE.pdf informs that Orostachys erubescens (Maximowicz) is a synonym for
Orostachys spinosa (Linnaeus) Sweet.

How could this be? Those plants are not similar. Maybe chinese
O.spinosa is sometimes wrongly determinated as O.erubescens?

Lynn put a link of your forum, i would love to see it.

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:12 pm

find it! :
''The present authors have followed V. V. Byalt (pers. comm.)who
believes that the species identified in FRPS as Orostachys erubescens
is in fact O. japonica, whereas true O. erubescens is a synonym of O.
spinosa.''

http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss/volume08/CRASSULACEAE.pdf (page 7)

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by valleylynn on Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:16 pm

http://cubits.org/sedumandsempervivum/
here is a link to my website. You will find a very short thread for Orostachys under the forum of Meet the ??? http://cubits.org/sedumandsempervivum/forums/view/meetthe/
I have just started this late summer with Orostachys, so have nothing except photos of mine to post. Would love if you have time to share your knowledge and information.

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by valleylynn on Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:22 pm

Priceless information Narcoleptic. Is there something else I can call you? Very Happy

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:34 pm

Great forum Lynn! I will try to be present there in the future.

It's not like I'm shooting this informations out of my head, it's just lately I'm very into Orostachys and I want to know more. All those informations are somewhere on internet, and I just want to organize them for myself and for the others. Google is really a miracle.
I'm glad you like it Smile

I'm into many things..plants mostly (Hardy succulents, Iris, Venus Flytraps...)...

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:45 pm

Orostachys chlorantha Fisch.
Orostachys erubescens (Maxim.) Ohwi
Orostachys filifera (Nakai) Nakai
Orostachys minuta (Kom.) A.Berger
Orostachys minuta (Kom.) A.Berger f. alba Y.N.Lee
Orostachys kanboensis Ohwi


are synonims of Orostachys spinosa (L.) A.Berger

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 189)
link: http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

Names O.erubescens and O.minuta are today widely used for the names of species, so i don't think this will be accepted soon.


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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:56 pm

Orostachys aggregata var boehmeri (Makino) Ohwi (1953.) (not listed above)
Orostachys furusei Ohwi
Orostachys iwarenge (Makino) Hara var. boehmeri (Makino) H.Ohb
Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. var. boehmeri (Makino) H.Hara
Orostachys vyschinii T.A.Bezdeleva


are synonyms of Orostachys boehmeri (Makino) Hara

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 187)
link: http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:14 pm

Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger var. grandiflora F.Z.Li & X.D.Chen
Orostachys fimbriata subvar. limuloides (Praeger) H. Jacobsen (1955.) (not listed above)
Orostachys fimbriata var. ramosissima (Maximowicz) A.Berger (1930) (not listed obove)
Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger var. shandongensis F.Z.Li & X.D.Chen
Orostachys jiuhuaensis X.H.Guo & X.L.Liu
Orostachys ramosissimus (Maxim.) V.V.Byalt (1998.)
(listed as O. ramosissima)


are synonyms of Orostachys fimbriata (Turcz.) A.Berger

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 187)
link: http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:28 pm

Orostachys erubescens var. japonica (Maximowicz) Ohwi (1953) (not listed)
Orostachys erubescens var. polycephala (Makino) Ohwi (1953) (not listed)
Orostachys japonica fa. polycephala (Makino) H. Ohba (1981)
Orostachys latielliptica Y.N.Lee (2000)

Orostachys margaritifolius Y.N.Lee (2000) (listed as O. margaritifolia)
Orostachys polycephala (Makino) H. Hara (1935)

are synonyms of Orostachys japonica (Maxim.) A.Berger

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 188)
link:http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by I'm the 1 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:19 am

. BRAVO!!

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:27 am

Orostachys serrata Sweet (1830)
Orostachys saxatilis (Nakai) Nakai (1942)
Orostachys genkaiensis Ohwi (1956)
Orostachys ramosa Y.N.Lee (2000)


are synonyms of Orostachys malacophylla ssp. malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch.

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 188)
link:http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

Thank you Renata! I will write more, but i think I deserve
extended weekend rest Wink

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by I'm the 1 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:01 am

Yes, you well deserve it!

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by valleylynn on Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:41 pm

Happy birthday Narcoleptic. May it be a wonderful day for you. : )

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:04 pm

I'm back!

Oh Lynn it wasn't my birthday..but my 3 friends had birthdays so
this weekend was really great Smile

Orostachys aggregata (Makino) Hara (1935)
Orostachys aggregata fa. rosea Sugaya (1956) (not listed)
Orostachys malacophylla fa. rosea (Sugaya) H.Ohba (1981)

are synonyms of Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. var. aggregata (Makino) H.Ohba

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 188)
link: http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by valleylynn on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:11 pm

Please pass the birthday wish on to them. : ) And save some for when your birthday comes around. : )
You are really helping to clear up all my confusion on Orostachys vaieties, thank you so much.

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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:15 pm

Orostachys iwarenge (Makino) Hara (1935)
Orostachys iwarenge fa. albomarginata Sugimoto (1958) (not listed)
Orostachys iwarenge fa. albovariegata Sugimoto (1958) (not listed)
Orostachys iwarenge fa. aureomarginata Sugimoto (1958) (not listed)
Orostachys iwarenge fa. luteomedia Sugimoto (1958) (not listed)
Orostachys iwarenge fa. magna Y.N.Lee (2000) (not listed)
Orostachys chongsunensis Y.N.Lee (2000)

are synonyms of Orostachys malacophylla (Pall.) Fisch. var. iwarenge (Makino) H.Ohba

according to Urs Eggli: Illustrated handbook of succulent plants: Crassulaceae (page 188)
link: http://books.google.hr/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=Orostachys+chlorantha&source=bl&ots=bximVfeTkL&sig=dCUGc4SJmJr0zI6YK4kqphEwgCw&hl=hr&ei=_ILtTPPeF5CcOoCY-WM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Orostachys%20chlorantha&f=false

Marko.D
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Re: Orostachys systematics

Post by Marko.D on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:25 pm

Unfortunately i can't edit list from the previous page.
I will make another list tomorrow and I think that today are 12 species in this genus recognised.
So many names for about a dozen species.

I'm glad I can help Smile

Marko.D
Golden Rosette
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Re: Orostachys systematics

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